Chemistry: Virginia Date 1

[00:00:00] Virginia: What animal best represents how you typically show up in bed? 

[00:00:06] Nick: I would say a tortoise. Why a tortoise? Cause I like to take things slow. 

[00:00:16] Hiwote: This is Dating: a series of recorded first dates. 

[00:00:19] Virginia: It's funny you say that because I was thinking about a story, my friends told me and he was the complete opposite. Okay, be ready for this. It's a person that just lies there. Like, you know, when you flip a turtle and they just lay there and they cannot move, this is who you are to me now.

[00:00:46] Jesse: This is Dating. I'm Jesse. 

[00:00:50] Hiwote: And I'm Hiwote. We're producers on the show. 

[00:00:53] Jesse: Meet our date for tonight. We're going to call her Virginia. That's not her real name, but it's what she asked us to call her. Here's her best friend, Elena describing her. 

[00:01:03] Elena: I don't think it's even possible for her to lie. Like she's very honest and very direct. She has a very kind of dark sense of humor. She can be like the most serious person and so passionate about her work and human rights and all of these causes. And then also be like the most sarcastic person in the world too. So I truly enjoy that duality in her that she can be so serious. And so funny at the same time. I feel like anybody should be so lucky to have her in their life, in any capacity. 

[00:01:38] Hiwote: So Virginia spent her twenties building her career as a human rights lawyer. And now in her thirties, she finds herself in one of the most ambitious cities in the country, maybe even the world. And she kind of finds it lacking in love.

[00:01:55] Virginia: I always say, like, when I see old people walking down the street, like on date nights or stuff like that, I'm very surprised. And I'm like, wow, I want that. I want to be in a relationship where I feel like I want to be with this person. I want to share things with this person not just the practical things of life. Oh, we connect well, we can make this, but more than that, and I don't even know how to describe it. I don't know, chemistry, spark, I dunno what it is. There's something more than just being comfortable in a relationship that works. 

[00:02:29] Jesse: I what she's saying about wanting to feel chemistry, but I think there's also an argument to be made that you can find both in the same person. Comfort and that spark. And what I think we need to do is to set Virginia up on a couple of first dates and see if she can figure that out for herself. 

Okay so tell me a little bit about where you are emotionally and why this felt like something you might apply to.

[00:03:04] Virginia: I ended a I'm going to call it a relationship about a year and a half ago, that person was in an open marriage I think for about six, seven years. And then I came into the relationship. So then they got divorced a few months after we started dating and then we dated for a little while, but he ended up moving. He didn't want a relationship right after his divorce. So that was tough because I really wanted to be with him. 

[00:03:34] Jesse: Since we're obviously not going to reveal his name, we'll just call him x. 

[00:03:39] Virginia: I'm just now feeling like myself again. And I'm trying to, I don't want to sound cliche, but I don't have time to waste. Like I, I want a family and I want to build a life with someone. 

[00:03:54] Jesse: Hiwote, I think it's time to bring in Logan. 

[00:03:58] Hiwote: As a part of our team to help the daters, we have a secret weapon. 

[00:04:03] Jesse: Logan Ury is a behavioral scientist, and she also happens to be a dating coach. 

[00:04:07] Hiwote: Yeah, and I think if we set Virginia up with Logan before her first date, Logan might be able to help her open up to the kind of relationship she says she's looking for. 

[00:04:20] Logan: How have you been approaching finding a person? 

[00:04:23] Virginia: I've been here for five years. In five years, I think I've been on, well, I'm going to say 50 or 60 dates for sure. And out of those, they were two guys that I actually met that I'm like, we get, we continued to get to know each other and I'm like, oh, I would want to try and date them. But yeah, I don't make connections easy. I have an issue and that I don't, I'm not very good at small talk. On a first date, like I always end up having a conversation about a major topic. My brother always tells me whenever I go on dates, he's like, do not bring up an abortion or do not bring up immigration. Cause he knows me. 

[00:05:02] Logan: Okay. And it sounds like with X, if he had said, I'm leaving my marriage, I want to be with you exclusively, you liked him enough that you would have done that. He wasn't available for an exclusive relationship with you. 

[00:05:15] Virginia: Well, no. Cause so like when we were together that he was with his wife, it was more like, oh, we're doing this like on a temporary basis. But I wanted a relationship with him after he separated from his wife. So I never even considered the, leave your wife for me. Knowing myself, I probably would have been like this is risky. Like why would you leave your partner for someone you just met a couple of months ago? 

[00:05:43] Logan: Do you think one of the reasons you liked X was because he wasn't fully available?

[00:05:51] Virginia: Man my friends say that. I don't know, to be honest with you I don't know. I do have a history of choosing men that are not completely available. Cause there's other guys that I've dated for long periods of time, like one, two years, that are definitely not going to be like serious relationship material. And I just keep choosing this type of man. So maybe there's something there to say about me. 

[00:06:13] Logan: 50 dates turned into two guys that you like, and then both of them are not emotionally available or they're not interested, or they don't really, they're not even really willing to try a relationship with you. So my hypothesis is that there are some great guys that you're going out with that you're interpreting as boring, but actually are very secure nice guys who could be wonderful partners and husbands and fathers, but that there's something about what you've been attracted to, where you're really attracted to guys who are not available or who aren't interested in you, or don't want something long term.

[00:06:51] Virginia: Okay, yeah. One of my friends, she said almost the same thing. She's like, I think that whatever you're calling like a spark or that big chemistry, is because they're not giving you what you really want. So it's just like reinforcing some type of emotional issue or situation that you have inside of you that you're not realizing. And then you're like whoever doesn't make you feel like that, you're just like pushing them aside. So I think you are on track on that, on something here. 

[00:07:21] Logan: We mistake anxiety for chemistry and we say, oh, I had this spark, but you could actually look at it a different way and say, I never knew if he was going to call me. I didn't know what was going to happen. And that mystery or excitement around it is what feels like the spark. I would love to help you reframe those guys who are securely attached, who don't pull away, who are comfortable with intimacy and connection who are more available and help you say, oh, wow, those are the guys that stick around. Those are the guys that want to get to know me on a deeper level and help you reframe them from, oh, I don't have a connection to them, to what I thought was a connection was actually a form of anxiety. 

[00:07:59] Virginia: Yeah. I like that. I think you're right. I think you're right.

[00:08:05] Hiwote: Jesse, I kind of hear what Virginia's saying, like, if I'm going to go out with someone or start something with someone, I want to feel a connection. 

[00:08:22] Jesse: Right. But that connection, that spark, if we're going to call it that, it ebbs and flows. Like, just because you don't feel it when you first meet someone, it doesn't mean it won't sneak up on you when you have your guard down and you least expect it. 

[00:08:37] Hiwote: Fair enough. But at the very least, Virginia has identified that she keeps choosing unavailable guys. Right? So part of our job is to find someone who is available for her to go out with. 

[00:08:51] Jesse: Right. But with Virginia, it can't be too available. 

[00:08:54] Hiwote: Exactly. So I found Nick, and this is how his best friend describes him. 

[00:09:00] Chad: Nick is one of the best people I know, like whenever I need to want to talk to you, he's the first person I call. He's a problem solver. And he cares. And he's you know, I wouldn't say a loner, but he enjoys his space. He's a great communicator, like, he'll call you, faceTime you, he'll text you he'll email you, he'll DM you. Like his communication is great, but he does enjoy his space. 

[00:09:25] Jesse: Okay. I love this guy. He's got to have read that in a magazine. I mean, yes, he's a great communicator, but he needs a loads of space. 

[00:09:34] Hiwote: I mean, honestly, I'm surprised as best friend didn't mention this, but Nick is a male model and I'm really hoping that that might be the thing that lights the spark. 

[00:09:44] Jesse: Okay. Then let's have Logan do some coaching with Nick and get this date started.

[00:09:49] Logan: Oh, you look great. 

[00:09:54] Nick: Oh, thank you. I had a jacket on. I was like, hey, I don't know if that's too much. I'll just go with a shirt. 

[00:09:58] Logan: This was great. Yeah. That light behind you is coming down a little bit. 

[00:10:01] Nick: Yeah I'm gonna kill it. Alexa turn the light off. Done.

[00:10:06] Logan: Power move. How are you? I'm so excited you're doing this. 

[00:10:09] Nick: I have nothing to lose, right? 

[00:10:11] Logan: Yeah. I think that's a great way of putting it. Before we invite her in do you have any questions for me or anything you want to chat about? 

[00:10:18] Nick: Yeah, I do have a question. I don't really know how to approach the question when a woman asks me, what are your intentions with me? And I'm like, I don't even know your middle name, so let's start there. 

[00:10:28] Logan: Funny you should say that. Okay, you and I both know what they mean by that, right? They mean, are you going to waste my time? Are you a fuckboy? 

[00:10:37] Nick: I'd never look at a relationship or a situationship as a quote unquote waste of time. But then again, my biological clock is a lot different. 

[00:10:47] Logan: The truth is, I think lots of people who are in successful relationships weren't ready when they met that person or they weren't looking for something serious. You just meet someone, it clicks, you start dating and you keep dating, right? And so I think your perspective is actually the right one in that you're like, I'm open to what develops, but I don't have a plan yet. But they are in a place where it is sometimes the biological clock thing, where they just feel like I'm so burnt out by what I perceive as a waste of time that I kind of just want to know that you're serious. What's usually your response, when you get that question? 

[00:11:26] Nick: I just answer it, I don't know. I have no idea. I'd love to get to know who you are and like, we kind of take it from there. 

[00:11:34] Logan: Can I tell you what, like how I might say it if I were you?

[00:11:37] Nick: Yes. 

[00:11:38] Logan: Yeah. I think I would say something like long-term I want to find someone to be married. For now I'm on the apps because I'm interested in meeting more people and I'm really hoping to meet someone special and see what develops. 

[00:11:53] Nick: Cool. I'll give it a go. 

Okay. Cool. All right, let's bring the gal in.

[00:12:04] Virginia: Hello. How are you in Nick?

[00:12:10] Nick: I'm fantastic. I was just badgered with questions. No, I'm kidding, cool conversation. I'm good though. I'm happy. I don't have to work for the rest of the week. So, um, I'm chilling. 

[00:12:23] Virginia: Nice. 

[00:12:24] Nick: I saw you lift a glass. Are you drinking something? What do we have? Oh, red wine can you give me two tics. I'm going to go to my bar and grab something. Is that all right? 

[00:12:32] Virginia: That's fine.

[00:12:37] Nick: Got it. I am going to have some Grand Marnier. Why not?. Just a little bit. 

[00:12:43] Hiwote: Grand Marnier. Okay, Nick. 

[00:12:49] Jesse: So do we think they're settled in now? 

[00:12:51] Hiwote: I think they're as settled as they'll be. 

[00:12:54] Jesse: We wrote a few questions to kind of take the pressure off the date. So let's send them the first one in the chat now. 

[00:13:00] Hiwote: Okay. Let's do it.

[00:13:08] Virginia: What is the first thing you notice about a person when you first meet them? 

[00:13:13] Nick: Their smile. 

[00:13:15] Virginia: Me too. And their hair. 

[00:13:16] Nick: Yeah. I don't have a lot of that, so. I did have an Afro earlier this year because I hadn't been to the barbershop yet, and I wasn't in person doing anything with clients. You know, I just, it grew and grew and grew.

[00:13:28] Virginia: I do have to ask you though, now that you mentioned that you're not saying clients, I have like very curly hair. So I, whenever I have to see clients or go to court, for example, I put it up, I put it like in a bun or something. Cause I find it distracting. What is your thing with clients and not having an Afro?

[00:13:45] Nick: I don't know. I think this is just a neater look and this is my professional appearance. Meaning like this is how people know me. So when I show up, I like to look the same if you will, because I have a personal brand at work, if you will. So yeah, this is me. 

[00:14:02] Virginia: What is the personal brand? What do people think of you?

[00:14:05] Nick: My appearance is the first thing people usually notice. I'm really into fashion. So suiting is my thing. If I told you how many tuxedos at home, it would probably be kind of scary. 

[00:14:16] Virginia: Just tell me the number. 

[00:14:17] Nick: Nine. 

[00:14:19] Virginia: Is that a lot? 

[00:14:20] Nick: In tuxedos? I would think so. Well I'll, I'll put it, I'll turn it on it's head. How many evening gowns do you own? 

[00:14:26] Virginia: Like formal? Just three. 

[00:14:28] Nick: See what I'm saying? 

[00:14:30] Virginia: That is a lot. Now I'm judging you based on that. 

[00:14:33] Nick: But yeah. So yeah, usually keep it short. My my barber, he went away every pretty much everyone left New York. When coronavirus hit, like people ran scared and he left the city for months and months and months and months, so. 

[00:14:46] Virginia: My dad is there. So I've been going every, not every month, but every like month and a half just to see him.

[00:14:52] Nick: How do you usually get up here? Do you fly? Drive? Take the bus? 

[00:14:55] Virginia: I take the train or the bus. I don't know how to drive. Or swim. Let's get that out of the way. I'm from an island and I don't swim. 

[00:15:04] Nick: Well, I don't know how to swim either. So there's that? 

[00:15:08] Virginia: So we would drown if we go to the beach together and there is no lifeguards.

[00:15:15] Nick: I'm quite tall though. I'm 6'1". So I'd have to go deep. 

[00:15:19] Virginia: The ocean is like very deep. I just want to, I don't know if you know this.

[00:15:28] Hiwote: I mean, I find her so funny, Jesse. 

[00:15:31] Jesse: I know her sense of humor is so dry and I love that she is just not easily impressed. 

[00:15:38] Hiwote: Right. And her humor is definitely not for everyone, but I kind of think he's into it. 

[00:15:43] Jesse: So I think they're ready for another question. How about, were you raised to be independent or rely on others?

[00:16:00] Nick: That's actually an interesting question. You can go first or I can go. 

[00:16:05] Virginia: You can go, I'll let you answer first.

[00:16:07] Nick: I think it was independence by default. So I have three siblings and my mother raised all four of us by herself. So we had to be independent. You know, she was a full-time working mother and, you know, as we came into our own, we had our own lives and she left it to us to make the right decision. She couldn't police us on curfew and all this other nonsense. She was like, look, this is the right way of doing things and you're going to have to make that choice for yourself.

[00:16:35] Virginia: Where are you on the four?

[00:16:37] Nick: I'm number two, but I'm the oldest, if you will. 

[00:16:43] Virginia: Can I ask, why do you think you're the oldest if you're the second? 

[00:16:46] Nick: I'm the one who always gets everyone together. My younger siblings usually look to me for their like, need like advice and stuff. My brother's really independent, went to college, and then he kind of like never looked back, which is cool. 

[00:17:00] Virginia: Yeah, sometimes you have to. Let me see. I think for me it was a combination of both, but I'm very independent. I'm technically. a middle child. Um, I have an older sister, I'm a twin with a boy. But I was like, oh, we want a girl and a boy. And then I'm like but I'm here. What are you going to do about it? And then my twin brother was born really sick. Like he almost died. He needed surgery like two weeks after being born. So there was a lot of attention on him. And then my sister, it's like my dad's favorite for a little while there. So I just became really independent. I don't know if you're familiar with like Latin culture, but you're expected to rely on your family. Not at all times, but a lot. I was raised to be independent, but I'm expected to need by the rest of my family.

[00:17:51] Jesse: You know, I think that question did what we wanted it to do. We wanted them to come off the superficial and to share something. I feel like they're in a pretty good place, which makes me think maybe we just leave them alone for a few minutes and see what happens. 

[00:18:08] Virginia: Do you have a list of things you wouldn't do? You don't have to share now. 

[00:18:10] Nick: Yeah, I do. 

[00:18:12] Virginia: Okay. Maybe one, just tell me one that you would not do. 

[00:18:15] Nick: I don't do like dressing up in like weird things like whips and chains and all that bullshit. I don't get involved with that. What do they call it? Dominatrix?. I don't do that, like leather. Like pain for me, pain is not pleasure to me. You know what I'm saying?

[00:18:36] Virginia: Yes, kind of. Don't share your opinion too much about it. I didn't, you know, now that you mentioned leather and stuff. I went to a dungeon one time. And there was this woman and she had three men, like she was, she was just like, she was wearing regular clothes. And these three guys that she had, like on each one of them had a collar and then she had all three of them, like had a chain connected to each other. These were older men, like 50 60 year old men. And they were wearing like, you know that French maid outfit? And they were wearing that. And they she was just parading them around the dungeon and she looked very happy, but they looked so sad and I'm like, oh, maybe they're not enjoying this, but I think they were cause they could have, I'm hoping they could have just walked away. So maybe you're not going to be in a French maid outfit anytime soon... 

[00:19:28] Nick: Yeah, no. 

[00:19:28] Virginia: It's okay. I'm not into that either, so. 

[00:19:30] Nick: Perfect, I was a little scared. 

[00:19:33] Virginia: You know what would be perfect though? A guy that would say something like, you know what, I'm a submissive, I want to clean your house and I don't want anything sexual. I just want to clean your house for you once a week. And that's all, that's just our relationship. The guy cleans my house and I don't have to do anything. Wouldn't that be perfect? 

[00:19:57] Nick: For you, it would. Definitely. 

[00:19:59] Virginia: I wonder, can I take a break to get some more wine? I think so, right? I think that should be fine. 

[00:20:06] Nick: Yeah, do it. 

[00:20:08] Hiwote: These two are so fun. 

[00:20:11] Jesse: I literally have no idea what she's going to do next. So let's all refill our beverages and come back in a second. More with Virginia and Nick after this.

[00:20:33] Nick: Okay. What kind of wine are you drinking? 

[00:20:37] Virginia: Merlot. I don't know anything about wine. I just know, I like it. I'm okay with it. 

[00:20:44] Nick: Yeah I mean, that's enough. Knowing what you like is enough. 

[00:20:48] Virginia: Do you mind if I ask, how old are you? 

[00:20:50] Nick: No, I don't mind at all. It's not going to change. I'm 34. 

[00:20:53] Virginia: Okay. You don't look a day older. 

[00:20:56] Nick: Thank you for saying that. I think it's it's the skin routine, 

[00:20:59] Virginia: you can say it. Brown people and nonwhites age very well.

Please share something you would have normally share on a first date. 

[00:21:14] Nick: Oh, I have one. 

[00:21:16] Virginia: You can share. Tell me please. 

[00:21:18] Nick: I have one. I usually don't share this in the first day. I don't even know if this is a faux pas or not, but I hey, I've already opened the door haven't I?

[00:21:26] Virginia: You have.

[00:21:27] Nick: Yeah, I have. This is not really a first date comment you would make, but fuck it. I want to have kids. I want kids with an S, right? I don't want 12. I'm not, you know Amish or Mormon or anything like that. I would like to have two, three, something manageable, but then, then I know that I'm not carrying the kids. 

[00:21:43] Virginia: That's cute, that's very supportive. 

[00:21:45] Nick: So it's really not my choice in the end. It's like a collective thing, but yeah it's not something that you come out of the gate with. Hey, can I buy you a drink? Also, you want to carry my kids? Like come on. 

[00:21:54] Virginia: Yes. Yes. Okay. I'm trying to think if there's anything. There are a lot of things I wouldn't share on a first date. I'm not sure that I can share them on this first date. Yeah, I'm not as adventurous as you. 

[00:22:08] Nick: And I hope my comment didn't scare you. 

[00:22:10] Virginia: No it's okay. I want children to, I want. If I'm alone, I definitely want to adopt. If I have a partner, I want to have biological kids and maybe adopt too. If I were rich, like if I had a lot of money, I would want like six kids. Not biological, no. After I get back in shape, it's not going to happen again.

[00:22:40] Jesse: It's so interesting. If you think back to the Nick we met at the very beginning of the date and his question to Logan, which was basically what do I say to all these women who ask me what my intentions are, to an hour later, and he's sharing that he wants to have kids. 

[00:22:59] Hiwote: Yeah, this is definitely not the grand Marnier Nick that we met at the beginning, but I think that means they're ready for the role model question,

[00:23:11] Virginia: Man, these questions are tough. 

[00:23:12] Nick: They are. They're really deep, aren't they? 

[00:23:15] Virginia: They are deep. 

[00:23:16] Nick: Were your parents good role models for love? Why or why not? 

[00:23:19] Virginia: I don't think, I don't think my parents were good role models. I come from a society that is very sexist and that translates into relationships like marriages as well. And I think divorce, it's something that is not... in DR there's this, you have to take what it is, whatever it is that you're getting in a relationship, you have to take it because it's marriage. And I think my parents were... separate they're very good, like my dad is an incredible human being. I love him. He's very, he's a little bit like, how your friend described you like a loner, but still can be around people. He always made it a thing to be in our lives and he's very academic. He doesn't party, he doesn't drink, all of that. And my mom on the other side, again, like very good person, she loves to party, she loves to dance. She loved to go out and have that social life. So when they came together, it was basically, my mom had to give up, all of the things that she loved to do, because she wanted that marriage to work. My dad looked very good on paper and he's very good, but I don't think necessarily they were like compatible and they ended up getting divorced, after 25 years, cause enough is enough, but I think you could tell that they were together for us, the kids. And I don't think that necessarily, gave me a good idea of what love is. For them, it was more of a convenient relationship. I don't know if that makes sense. 

[00:25:03] Nick: That makes perfect sense. I understand. I understand what you're saying.

[00:25:06] Virginia: And you said your mom's a single mother. 

[00:25:09] Nick: Yeah so, I'm not going to say good or bad role models. Yeah, it's just an example of what love looks like. But I don't, I'll put it to you this way. I've never seen my parents kiss, okay? So I think what I learned from that relationship as a child, looking back at, as an adult now, is it something that I want in my life? Probably not. But also taught me that showing love to your significant other is important because my father didn't do that with my mother, because they were in just in a weird situation. But I wouldn't change it. I wouldn't change it. I think it made me the man I am today. And that's just what it is. 

[00:25:54] Virginia: But when I was hearing you talk about that, then I wondered too, like, how does that love translate to us, right? Because for me, they were like really bad role models as a couple. But when I think about like, I'm closer to my dad and I think about like his love towards me, I would definitely see him as a role model, like to this day he calls me, he's like, hey, did I tell you today that I love you? And things like that, but that was never a thing I saw with my parents. And as I was listening to you, I'm like, have I ever seen my parents kiss I, I'm not sure. 

[00:26:30] Nick: I think it has shaped the way that I show love to another person. I like to kiss I am touchy feely, if you will, because I want that other person to know I'm there because I didn't see that as a kid, if that makes sense.

[00:26:44] Virginia: It does. So I'm going to ask how many serious relationships you've had. And what do you consider serious relationships? 

[00:26:54] Nick: One. 

[00:26:55] Virginia: What is a serious relationship to you? 

[00:26:57] Nick: Uh, for, I would say we're invested in each other: a lot of time, a lot of energy, a lot of feelings invested family time. Our parents know each other I've been... 

[00:27:10] Virginia: That's intense. 

[00:27:12] Nick: Yeah. So, yeah. I mean one, yeah, just one. 

[00:27:14] Virginia: Are you friends with your ex? 

[00:27:16] Nick: Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't say friends like we would hang out. She's engaged to be married, so there's that, which I think is fine, happy for there. And one day I'll be engaged to be married as well. And 

[00:27:29] Virginia: I was gonna make a really bad hurtful joke about that but... 

[00:27:33] Nick: Go on. 

[00:27:36] Virginia: Are you sure? 

[00:27:37] Nick: Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah. 

[00:27:39] Virginia: That is not a given that you're going to be engaged? I mean... 

[00:27:42] Nick: Oh it is. It is. 

[00:27:43] Virginia: You're a hundred percent sure you're going to get engaged?

[00:27:47] Nick: For sure. 

[00:27:47] Virginia: You're a hundred percent sure you're going to get married. 

[00:27:51] Nick: Now you said married... 

[00:27:53] Virginia: Oh, wait, so you're a hundred percent sure you're going to get engaged.

[00:27:58] Nick: Definitely. 

[00:27:59] Virginia: Is it a hundred percent sure because you would probably pop the question or a hundred percent sure because you will find the person? 

[00:28:05] Nick: I don't think there's any other way. I mean, I'm going to have to do the asking. 

[00:28:09] Virginia: So you're going to do the questioning, that's a hundred percent sure. But are you going to do the questioning because you know you're going to find the one or are you just going to be like, I know at one point I'm going to do this, whether I find the one or not. 

[00:28:22] Nick: I think it's the former, not the latter. I think the one for me is there somewhere in the world. I mean, let's face it. There's 8 billion people on the planet, someone out there wants to marry this guy, okay? 

[00:28:33] Virginia: I dunno, you're in New York. New York is tough. You're lucky that you're not in DC, but you're in New York. 

[00:28:41] Nick: You know, so there's gotta be someone. They may not know it yet, but there's someone out there that wants to marry this guy. 

[00:28:48] Virginia: Okay. Because you are so great. 

[00:28:51] Nick: No, I didn't say that. Chad said that. 

[00:28:54] Virginia: Yes. Okay. You're going to buy Chad at drink for building you up. Yeah, I don't think I have anything else I want to know about you. 

[00:29:04] Nick: You sure?

[00:29:06] Virginia: Yes. 

[00:29:07] Nick: I was going to say, I don't know if this is a faux pas but if you're not busy, I can continue to talk to you if you want to talk to me. I'm easy. 

[00:29:15] Virginia: Yeah, that's great. I was actually gonna say, when you're in town, we should grab a socially distant drink.

[00:29:24] Hiwote: It looks like they're really vibing, so let's not interrupt this. 

[00:29:30] Jesse: Agreed. Like let's just let them keep going. Let's excuse ourselves. And maybe you call Virginia in the morning.

[00:29:45] Hiwote: Okay, so, it's 10:30, 10:43 the day after your date. How do you feel?

[00:29:53] Virginia: I feel good. I feel good. I do think I confirmed something that I've been thinking about for a while. And it's the fact, like I meet some incredible men and we have great conversation. And this happened with this guy, right? Like we had a great date, I thought. Great conversation, but then I sit and I'm like, you know what? I could see him again, like I could not. And I would be okay. So, I guess sometimes I question and again, like this, I confirmed last night, like, what is it that, what is it that I want? What is it that I'm expecting to feel? Like I said, I could go for that drink and get to know him better, but I would be completely fine if we didn't get together again or talk again.

[00:30:36] Hiwote: Were you attracted to him when you saw him? Physically? 

[00:30:42] Virginia: I was not, but as the night went on and conversation went on. I'm going to be very blunt. I was like, I could sleep with him. That's what I was like, thinking, he's a very attractive man I guess it was his confidence. He like, he has a very good sense of humor.

I just found him at the end, like overall, very attractive, maybe like eye catching. Like you would see him in a place. He's like the type of man that people would look at him when he enters a room. But just like his vibe, his, I dunno, you were there, you saw him. 

[00:31:24] Hiwote: Yeah! Are you planning on going on another date?

[00:31:27] Virginia: We said like when he's in town, he can let me know and maybe we can grab that drink. 

[00:31:32] Hiwote: Yeah. 

[00:31:37] Jesse: Hiwote, growing up when it was, when it was time for someone's birthday and I had to pick out a present for a friend, my mother always used to tell me to pick something that I wanted. And I have to be really honest, I feel like you just gave Virginia a birthday present. 

[00:32:00] Hiwote: I mean you're not, not right. I would totally go out with Nick, but here's hoping Virginia does. And you know, in the meantime, we'll also set her up with Andrew. 

[00:32:12] Jesse: This is Dating. On Virginia's next date... 

[00:32:16] Virginia: Is there something you wanted to ask me that you haven't yet? I don't want to ask you anything. 

[00:32:22] Andrew: I mean, what are you doing this weekend?

[00:32:31] Jesse: If you'd like to be set up by us on a future date, go to thisisdatingpodcast.com. This is Dating is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Nuzum at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Hiwote Getaneh, eleanor Kagan and Taylor Hansen. We also received help from Esther Perel, Courtney Hamilton, Robert Smith, Julia Natt,Julia Silbergeld, the Quarantine Love Project, Hayden Dawes, Lulu Krause, and Eva Wolchover. Original music production and sound design by Paul Schneider. Logan Ury is our consulting producer and the executive producer of This is Dating is Jesse Baker.